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Kyle Star's avatar

Great post. I really like that you added “The existence of the Christian God would thus be worse than radical skepticism.” I’ve thought about pretty much that exact thing before! That Christianity is incompatible with so much of my understanding of the world that IF I twist my brain and imagine what I would be wrong about if it were real, it would be everything.

The world would have been specifically designed to deceive me. Statistics wouldn’t mean anything (if prayer works, someone would’ve noticed!). I would be fundamentally wrong about what “good” is and the entirety of morality (if you asked me to personally torture someone forever, with scalding brands, I’d turn you down). History wouldn’t mean anything (The Church has been wrong so much and they were so anti-science, that I guess having previous wrong predictions doesn’t matter). People used to believe all of the things in the Bible, instead of treating them as vague metaphors! Faith would mean truly ignoring statistics, science, reasoning, human progress, and logic to me. Faith really could be correct! But it’s directly against all of these.

This is why I think people who say faith and science are fundamentally at odds are more internally consistent than people who try to mesh them together. If Christianity is real, I think I might as well be a creationist for how many bullets I’d have to bite with the metaphorical view that many take today. And I mean that! I think setting science and faith completely at odds, and creationism actually being real somehow, is less of a bullet to bite than somehow mixing them.

(Note: this is specifically Christianity and not some sort of theism unrelated)

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Robert Wolle's avatar

The dogmatism arises from the fact that, if you put enough effort in to think theology through, there seem to be some pretty clear things we aught to be doing. I don't see how that's at odds with a Christian God.

The Christian, Omnibenevolent God chooses to let human beings make their own decisions, though. If the Church is not a perfect reflection of what it should be (e.g. loving, non-harming), that doesn't reflect on the consitution of God, that reflects on the failures of man to enact God's Will (God's Will being human fulfillment). As a Catholic, I have no issue conceding that Christians are generally quite bad people and use their religious beliefs, and sometimes the Church directly, to cause harm to others. I estimated that about 85% of Christians don't understand what it means to love God (which is the greatest commandment). That can be a failure of the people in the Church to inform others meaningfully, but it does not have to be a failure of God to reflect in the physical world. You might grant that Jesus' teachings for how we should live are perfect (it's not hard to), but just because the teachings are perfect and even if the communication of them is ideal, that should not mean that everyone who hears about Jesus was/is compelled by perfect rationality to become a good and loving person following dogma strictly. If the argument was perfectly rational, we wouldn't have the genuine free will to choose anything else, and that wouldn't be free will.

Also, when Christians say God is Omnibenevolent, they originally meant that all existence is good because it is preferable to non-existence, and God is the substance and source of existence so God is all good. I actually don't have a convincing argument at the moment to connect that rationality of good to "love," but the New Testament and personal spiritual practice pretty clearly demonstrates that God is also perfectly loving. Just wanted to clear up a potential conflation of (common) good and what theologians mean by "God is Good."

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