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Porter Kaufman's avatar

Here’s what I find odd: essentially the naturalist’s ’story’ is that by mere happenstance the universe is intelligible and their are creatures (us) who can fairly reliably interpret that data (with effort). I guess this is the contingency argument, but it just seems to the continual success of the scientific project is evidence for theism. The fact that things are held by some underlying principles suggests something is holding things together. It could be some impersonal underlying force but it just seems odd.

I think this does get to the whole thing of science describes what and how, but it does not provide the why (this is over simplified). Some naturalists tend to say that we just have to “accept there are bare facts,” but honestly this feels just as much of a cop out to retain a worldview as theists saying “it’s mysterious.” I also find it oddly unscientific. Theism in this regard motivates scientific reasoning better (I’d imagine) because there’s always room to wonder more, but the naturalist may say we’ve just hit the wall of explanation.

Maybe my point is that naturalism is metaphysically weak or something. Anyways, I would love to hear what any of this makes you think.

Micah Redding's avatar

> “In a weird way, many theists agree with this formulation of rejection of miracles. They believe the world is decipherable, it’s just that God’s supernatural imposition is a decipherable component of the laws of the universe. God creating a miracle is itself not miraculous, because God suspending the laws of nature is one of the laws of nature.”

I’m a theist who rejects the notion that God suspends the laws of nature. Miracles, in this view, would be wholly explicable in naturalistic terms.

This wouldn’t rule out them being the actions of God, or them being extraordinary and unusual.

Many naturalistic occurrences are extraordinary and unusual.

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