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Sol Hando's avatar

I was almost certain that the Sun Miracle wasn't actually a miracle. After reading Scott's lengthy post I am still almost certain that the Sun Miracle wasn't actually a miracle, but I guess that almost is now a tenth of a percent weaker than it was before or something like that.

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Man In The Arena's avatar

Good post, though a lot of this feels like common sense to me? And sorry if this is confrontational, I know you’ve argued for lowering the temperature of these discussions, and I respect you for that. However I need to get this off my chest and into the void.

I’m new to this corner of the internet (and lean firmly atheist), but I’ve heard some of these writers’ names before and didn’t expect them to be so open-minded that their brains fell out. The line you bolded from Scott actually made me scoff and stop reading, yet his post was met with what struck me as (frankly sycophantic) praise.

Evan’s response seemed excellent and more than sufficient—he covered essentially everything that needed to be covered and stopped where the claims became too ridiculous and the evidence too weak. Yet Scott and parts of this community criticized him for falling short of some unrealistic standard of “open-minded analysis.” Dylan, too, raised salient critiques but was faulted for not “doing his homework” and chasing every single philosophical rabbit hole raised by the other side. As you’ve argued, that strikes me as preposterous given the quality of the evidence and the nature of the claims.

Maybe it’s just the culture here to debate endlessly in circles about unfalsifiable, non-physical phenomena (which I suppose is much of philosophy…), but so much of it reads like word games and posturing to prove you’re not only more open-minded than everyone else, but also smarter and more virtuous. The whole “Bayesian reasoning” routine feels especially performative—it provides cover to assert sweeping claims about physical reality and how we ought to live, all built on made-up probabilities from an imaginary conceptual space.

Related note: the best piece of philosophy I’ve ever read is from Marcus Aurelius: “Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.” That strikes me as far more powerful than any n+1 article about God, miracles, or shrimp. This discourse seems ridiculous and almost offensive given the state of the world.

Maybe I just take things too seriously. Or maybe that’s simply what happens when you believe there’s no cosmic safety net—no deity pulling the strings to tidy things up in the end—so the only option is to act responsibly and live well here and now. Or maybe I’m just a salty edgy atheist who’s been out debated.

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